Is it OK to certify a "Loop + Footage"?

I had the same experience that Winston describes: someone with me all the time, and I learned lots of the lingo so that made descriptions easier. Hope your experience is as interesting!

Why not just record GPS coordinates for all the timing points?

Thanks ALL for sharing your advice and experience on measuring on airport runways!  Thanks to your expertise I was right at home when I arrived at the Niagara Falls International Airport to measure.  It was a GREAT experience!  I met the Airport Manager, and he was fully on board for the planned 5K later this summer.  He assigned a tech to me who shadowed my movements and kept us in contact with Air Traffic Control's Ground Control at all times. 

The civilian airport is shared with the US Air Force Reserve's 914th Air Refueling Wing.  All three runways were active, including the big one, 10L/28R, over 2 miles in length.

I was advised this was probably the 1st time anyone had ever ridden bicycle onto the active runways.

We had to always "hold" short at or before runway hold lines and get permission to cross or enter any runway.  The first hold came at my 1-Mile split. A huge KC-135 stratotanker was readying for takeoff.  The big bird weighs over 100,000 pounds and it was loaded with about 200,000 pounds of fuel for re-fueling ops.  It needed just about the entire 2 miles to get airborne.   Once the KC-135 was airborne, ground control advised that I was clear to "turn right onto runway 10-Left", that's the big one!   Having a runway this big enabled us to design a very simple loop course 5K.   It should be real fast - no hills - very few turns.

On my second measure, we had to hold at various locations, including short of the big runway for an executive jet practicing touch-and-go's.  Then to our surprise, ground control stopped us again before we reached the runway:  A huge US Navy Poseidon P8 had entered our airspace and wanted to practice a rapid touch-and-go in the opposite direction, with the wind, on runway 28 Right.  It was great to watch that up close.

The job took about 3 times longer to complete than a street 5K, but my numbers were real good.  It was an awesome experience!

Jeff John

Beauty. There's some nice graphic work!
Here's what I did when working on a 5K at NAS Pensacola.
https://www.facebook.com/measu...688/848724561820632/

RaceResources LLC, you could use GPS coordinates for splits, as long as they are not stated as "certified".  GPS coordinates are only as accurate as the instrument that measured them, combined with the instrument trying to locate them prior to the race.  Consumer-grade units are normally accurate to within +/- 10', and some are less accurate.  Descriptions from landmarks are best.

That said, if there is no describable landmark nearby, I do say "use GPS coordinates to get close, then look for marker".  Usually marked with washer/nail, or surveyor whiskers.

Don't use only GPS coordinates for Start, Finish, or Turnaround locations, though.  Those must have a reference to at least one landmark.

Of course not, Duane. Never have, never will use then for Start, Finish, or Turnarounds, except for designating the general area for these points.

What I mean to say is that when the nearest fixed object for a mile mark is many yards away, GPS coordinates in an area without tall buildings, heavy overhead canopy, not or on or beneath bridges are not only a huge help, they are by themselves accurate enough for these non-certified location descriptions. I have noticed that GPS locations seem to be less inaccurate these days than say, ten or even five years ago in my experience.  Part of this is that GPS software is improving, IMO. 

I performed course layout two days ago for a 20K that I certified a few years ago (map is attached). The parks authority allows no paint, nails, or markings of any kind. There is little on the paved bike path part of the course that can be appropriated for fixed object reference except small mileposts on the side of the trail. As I searched for some of these posts, I concluded that two of them had gone missing in the last year. I was left with GPS coordinates and little else with which to locate a couple of the mile marks. I heard no complaints about any of the mile marks following the race.

Doubtless you know that it is often possible to locate a Start, Finish, or Turnaround on Google Earth when you have your exact ground-truthing data for these locations. It is then possible to locate an exact point on GE, then measure from it to a mile mark. This entails locating the exact fixed-object-identified point, then measuring ("Add Path" tool) at highest zoom for curves, and at lower zoom to plot a perfectly straight measuring line where feasible. Set a GE placemark at the interim timing point so located, then use the ruler to mark a small line perpendicular to the running path at this location. Then, when GE has ground level imagery available for the road in question, is is possible to locate fixed objects at ground level. It is then feasible, again using the GE ruler, to identify this object and measure accurately from it to the mile mark. IMO, this method can be perfectly fine for Mom & Pop 5Ks or any race for which +/- 10' is adequate.

I used this for a recent low-key race measurement in which I hurried through my second ride to complete it before a lightning storm arrived. I filled in the three mile marks using this method in an open area with good ground-level imagery, using my fixed-object-identified Start, Finish, and Turnaround. No complaints after the race.

I am interested to know if anyone else has used this method, or if anyone has any reservations about it other than those previously mentioned.