Ban on using paint on City streets?

Bob Thurston can tell you about the time he had to pay a fine when he was caught painting timing points on a course in a national park in D.C. More reason to use GPS coordinates and no paint to designate points on certain courses. Of course, GPS won't work where there are nearby tall buildings, nearby hills or embankments, or overhead canopy that can all block the satellite signals.

I have noticed that it is often possible, using your recorded descriptions of points with respect to fixed objects, to locate these exact points on Google Earth. The GPS coordinates for these points as shown on Google Earth are at least as accurate as those captured on the ground,  likely more accurate by small increments. Where there is a clear sky view, these points can then be located during course layout. This is helpful not only where we aren't allowed to place paint marks, but in new development areas or where the "fixed objects" come to be less fixed than we may have supposed during the measurement.

It's okay to supplement your descriptions with GPS coordinates, but keep in mind it is a map requirement that any point that affects the length of the course (start, finish, turn-around, cone placement) must be described relative to permanent landmarks.

Exactly, Mark. In the case of the Cherry Blossom, GPS coordinates as a supplement could have resolved the apparent ambiguity of the fixed objects references.

They are also helpful for mile marks "out in the middle of nowhere" - again, assuming good sky view.

I personally never give GPS coordinates of start, finish, or turn-around points because I worry that the person setting up the course will use that and ignore my description relative to landmarks.

I think a better strategy for avoiding misunderstandings is to give distances to two different landmarks, such as 15 feet east of the fire hydrant and 30 feet west of the stop sign. You're pretty safe that there will be only one fire hydrant in the area that is 45 feet west of a stop sign.

I once referenced a turnaround to a building and a telephone pole, but somehow the race crew ignored the building and found another telephone pole (with the same number!) about a quarter mile further down the road.  So sometimes you just can't win.

Same thing has happened to me, Lee. This same sort of sloppy course layout is what caused the misplaced turn around at the 2019 Cherry Blossom 10 Miler, thereby disqualifying a couple of otherwise possible records. GPS coordinates for this turn around could have saved the bacon for this ill-fated race.

I have been doing this long enough that I have come back to courses I certified years ago to find that some of the "fixed objects" I used as reference points are just gone. In my latest incidence of this, I found the power company had torn down all the telephone poles on one street and replaced them with new ones in different spots. Thus, two mile marks I referenced to these poles were lost forever. Google Earth helped me find the approximate mile marks for the course layout team. The course needed revisions and re-certification anyway, so only one year's event was affected, fortunately.

GPS coordinates are not an omnibus solution. Even in an area that was open to satellite signals when we measured our course, tall buildings or other obstructions could come along in subsequent years and render those coordinates useless.

If someone asks why certifications expire in just 10 years, this is a big part of the answer. No reference point strategy is perfect.