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Ban on using paint on City streets?

L leebarrettMember
Just wondering if anyone else has encountered this issue. Below is an email from the City of Portland on treating painted mile marks for road races as graffiti. I just laid down the marks for the Shamrock Run 15km and the event director sent me this email a portion of which is below.

The City is asking that I use spray chalk, don't know how that's going to work out here in rainy Portland!

Lee Barrett

City code defines Graffiti:

A. Graffiti: Any unauthorized markings of paint, ink, chalk, dye or other similar substance which is visible from premises open to the public, and that have been placed upon any real or personal property such as buildings, fences, structures, or the unauthorized etching or scratching of such described surfaces where the markings are visible from premises open to the public, such as public rights of way or other publicly owned property.
So, technically..no markings are allowed. But, if we use temporary material and/or have a plan to remove/cover, we can work around the rule.

You can get black marking paint the same place as the colored marking paint, it will stand out on older gray asphalt, but with all the ongoing construction in this town, some semi-camoflauged black marks are better than ones that represent water lines, gas, power and telecom. I'd expect the marks to be mitigated within 24 hours, but if the weather is typical, I'm sure we can handle a rain delay.

I've asked the Graffiti Coordinator (copied) for a product recommendation, he advised :
http://www.homedepot.com/webap...2246266#.UTU-5DDqmSo


Allison Madsen, Events Coordinator
City of Portland
111 SW Columbia, Suite 600
Portland, OR 97201
Phone: (503) 865-2482
Fax: (503) 279-3921
allison.madsen@portlandoregon.gov
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B bobthurstonMember
Recently authorities in Tysons Corner Virginia demanded that marks for a 5K course be covered up or removed. They had never said "no painted marks" or anything, but anyway. I told the race managers to go ahead and cover them up with black paint. This actually preserves the marks pretty well-- sometimes after a few years the only marks you can find are the ones that were protected by black paint.
I've had mixed results with spray chalk-- mostly it lasts for quite a few months. But I recently discovered that salting the roads in winter can practically wipe it out.
guidobrothersguidobrothersMember
Interesting question. Years ago we used only black paint for marking mile splits. However, after noting that the roads in Connecticut are covered with various markings, we changed to white paint and have had no complaints from race directors or city law.

We use spray chalk for temporary markings and advise race directors to use it for race day road marking. In heavy traffic areas, especially in areas of wet roads, spray chalk only lasts a couple weeks. In other areas it lasts for months
pastmemberpastmemberMember
Where paint is not allowed, I use colored duct tape. Not the kind in Home Depot, but from Shurtape or one of the other manufacturers. It is at least as robust as good quality duct tape. It will take any kind of traffic with no wear if you get it down smoothly (best done as a 2-person job). After the race, you can easily peel it off the road. It comes in bright colors and several different widths. It is what I use for course layout when nothing else can be used. I make giant arrows in the road to show direction, and big bars across the road at mile marks. When you pull it up, it leaves no trace.
B bobthurstonMember
Flour also has interesting properties. Of course it washes right off with a heavy downpour when the flour is newly laid down. But flour marks on paths are very durable, lasting for many weeks at times. I think overnight dew serves to make a sort of dough out of the flour, then it stays put.
Besides squirrels and birds, dogs seem to really love licking up the flour marks on the road!
pastmemberpastmemberMember
Flour was the course marking standard in Montgomery County Road Runners Club in the 1980's until we got in to trouble with it. I marked flour arrows on a bike path on a humid summer morning. Later that day, a brief rainstorm came through. A week later, I ran through the same area and I saw that the flour arrows were still there. Curious, I stopped to examine one. It had become just wet enough to become a paste but not so wet that it dispersed. That paste then baked on the asphalt path in the summer sun. Months later, the arrows were still there. MCRRC got a complaint from the Park Service about the "paint marks on the path". To the skeptical park manager, we explained that is was baked flour. He said "no more flour". Those baked-on arrows were still visible three years later before finally fading away.

We switched to granulated lime. No one had a problem with that except a sensitive resident of an upscale neighborhood whose street we traversed in a popular race who reported to the police her suspicion that rogue vandals were "painting possibly anti-Semitic symbols on the road". Problem was, it was no better than flour on a windy day, and useless on a rainy day.

Hence the switch to colored tape. After the Pike's Peek 10K on the busy Rt. 355 in Rockville, MD, one year, the one mile split volunteer neglected to pull up the tape across the road. She had no difficulty finding the one mile mark the following year because the tape was still there, intact.
pastmemberpastmemberMember
The only issue with colored duct tape is that it will not adhere on damp pavement. Once it is smoothly down on dry pavement, no amount of water will wash it away. When pulled from either end, it comes up easily.

Jim, I remember the anthrax scare thing, too. A physician was arrested while laying out flour for a hash run. Can you imagine the weirdest of psychos laying out huge arrows on the road from a giant bag of anthrax? To me, this was one of many pieces of evidence that the terrorists were winning their battle with a frightened and slightly hysterical post 9-11 public.

I was detained by two Secret Service officers years ago who stopped me while I was painting a finish line mark for a 5K that was 2 blocks from the White House. They let me go after my story checked out.
M mattsonnebornMember
Jim Gerweck I just spoke to the Route Arrows gentleman on the phone. He also sells a wide tape for marking START FINISH etc., you can create your own shapes as needed. If you make a tab folded on them with the adhesive you may be able to peel them off after. Water speeds along deterioration as does intense sun. This is day of or max a few days before use stuff. Will check it out and thanks for the tip. I will use them to mark locations of Music stations along the route, more visible water station, mile marks, in addition to coning, where routes become unrestricted etc. He is launching a new web stie in April with some new products too.
joeconnellyjoeconnellyMember
We used the route arrows for one race in 2011 as did one other local RD. On roads, where there is regular vehicle traffic, they were totally gone within about 2 weeks. On the bikepath they faded out within about 6-8 weeks and were gone the next spring after the snow melted.

You can peel them up if you need.

If we had a ban on painting roads around here this is what I'd go with.
J jackwerblerMember
quote:
Originally posted by Lyman Jordan:
Where paint is not allowed, I use colored duct tape. Not the kind in Home Depot, but from Shurtape or one of the other manufacturers. It is at least as robust as good quality duct tape. It will take any kind of traffic with no wear if you get it down smoothly (best done as a 2-person job). After the race, you can easily peel it off the road. It comes in bright colors and several different widths. It is what I use for course layout when nothing else can be used. I make giant arrows in the road to show direction, and big bars across the road at mile marks. When you pull it up, it leaves no trace.


Hi:

I have a half-marathon that I will be measuring soon. A portion of the course is a boardwalk built from concrete pavers which the city specifically said paint may not be used to mark splits. The Shurtape sounds like a great idea. I checked their website and I see that there are many, many types to chose from. Can you tell me which one of the many offered you have used with success. Thank you.
J jackwerblerMember

Today, I had just finished putting down my last marker for a half marathon in a state park when a Park Ranger drove up next to me and stopped. He asked if I had a permit which I did not. He asked for ID and I noticed him on his radio speaking to someone. When asked how many such markers I had put down I, of course, gave him an honest answer. He did not issue a ticket but did order me to “cease and desist.” He indicated that I would be hearing from someone and that the matter was not over. He was a U.S. Government Park Ranger and although polite he was clearly not ready to just let this go. I don’t know what, if anything, is next. 

Race Resources LLCRace Resources LLCnew member

Bob Thurston can tell you about the time he had to pay a fine when he was caught painting timing points on a course in a national park in D.C. More reason to use GPS coordinates and no paint to designate points on certain courses. Of course, GPS won't work where there are nearby tall buildings, nearby hills or embankments, or overhead canopy that can all block the satellite signals.

I have noticed that it is often possible, using your recorded descriptions of points with respect to fixed objects, to locate these exact points on Google Earth. The GPS coordinates for these points as shown on Google Earth are at least as accurate as those captured on the ground,  likely more accurate by small increments. Where there is a clear sky view, these points can then be located during course layout. This is helpful not only where we aren't allowed to place paint marks, but in new development areas or where the "fixed objects" come to be less fixed than we may have supposed during the measurement.

AdminAdminMember

I personally never give GPS coordinates of start, finish, or turn-around points because I worry that the person setting up the course will use that and ignore my description relative to landmarks.

I think a better strategy for avoiding misunderstandings is to give distances to two different landmarks, such as 15 feet east of the fire hydrant and 30 feet west of the stop sign. You're pretty safe that there will be only one fire hydrant in the area that is 45 feet west of a stop sign.

Race Resources LLCRace Resources LLCnew member

Same thing has happened to me, Lee. This same sort of sloppy course layout is what caused the misplaced turn around at the 2019 Cherry Blossom 10 Miler, thereby disqualifying a couple of otherwise possible records. GPS coordinates for this turn around could have saved the bacon for this ill-fated race.

I have been doing this long enough that I have come back to courses I certified years ago to find that some of the "fixed objects" I used as reference points are just gone. In my latest incidence of this, I found the power company had torn down all the telephone poles on one street and replaced them with new ones in different spots. Thus, two mile marks I referenced to these poles were lost forever. Google Earth helped me find the approximate mile marks for the course layout team. The course needed revisions and re-certification anyway, so only one year's event was affected, fortunately.

GPS coordinates are not an omnibus solution. Even in an area that was open to satellite signals when we measured our course, tall buildings or other obstructions could come along in subsequent years and render those coordinates useless.

If someone asks why certifications expire in just 10 years, this is a big part of the answer. No reference point strategy is perfect.

Last edited by Race Resources LLC

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