At the RRTC meeting during the USATF convention we had a conversation with Andy Carr(Records Keeper). I did not understand why he needed a copy of the Certificate where the USATF site provided all the information necessary except the date of the Certification. Hence, we decided to place this information on the map. I asked Andy if this would be enough and he stated he would seek further Clarification as to why the Certificate was necessary from Ryan Lampa.
Below is their clarification on this: First, Andy asking Ryan about the above and next Ryan responding.
Ryan-
I have had a few inquiries regarding many of the pending records I have and wanted to clarify Rule 265 with you in regards to what I have to have in order for a pending record to be forwarded to the validator for validation.
I have been requesting races to provide the course measurement certificate in the case of US age-group and national open records. According to the rule I only need a copy of the certified map. All the info on separation and drop is available online which I can access and then put in the file to pass along to the validator. I understand the measurement certificate is a “receipt” to a race for the measurement of their course and is another level of “proof” for that race to show the course was run as measured but it looks like it is not required by me to have a copy of the certificate, just the map and the info about separation and drop, is this correct?
Let me (and the others) know why I need a copy of the certificate when in fact the rule states I only need a copy of the map?...or am I just missing something here??
http://www.usatf.org/about/rules/2008/2008USATFRules_Article5.pdf
see page 9 on the above link.
Andy Carr
USA Track & Field
Long Distance Running
Recordkeeper
____________________________________________________________________________
To ALL:
According to the rule I only need a copy of the certified map. All the
info on separation and drop is available online which I can access and then
put in the file to pass along to the validator. I understand the measurement
certificate is a "receipt" to a race for the measurement of their course and
is another level of "proof" for that race to show the course was run as
measured but it looks like it is not required by me to have a copy of the
certificate, just the map and the info about separation and drop, is this
correct?
A rule book cannot cover every contingency. For example, in USATF Rule 165:
Timing, there is no mention of timers' signatures, but the road race
application does require said signatures (for obvious reasons). So using the
rule book as "thee" source sometimes can be specious.
Let me (and the others) know why I need a copy of the certificate when in
fact the rule states I only need a copy of the map?...or am I just missing
something here??
To me, this is a no brainer. First, a race should (and needs to) have a
current copy of the course certficate and its map at its finger tips/on
file. And why not? Of course, said certificate and map is available thru
other easier/faster means (the USATF website, regional certifier, etc.), but
that's not the point, and it is NOT onerous to require the course
certificate and its map.
Second, the request serves as a double check that the race has the course
certificate and its map as listed on the road race application, and if not,
it serves as an opportunity to educate said race on why this is important.
In the nearly 15 years that I processed LDR records, at least once a year, a
road race did NOT have the same course certificate and map as listed on the
road race app or worse, the race had a certificate and map that didn't match
(i.e., certificate from 1998, map from 2002) or the course had expired.
Third, on occasion, my perusal also found an error on the certificate such
as incorrect drop and/or separation.
In short, regarding record keeping, it is one thing for a race to be
lackadaisical and quite another for USATF because record keeping is about
high standards, double checking and verification to ensure that the records
are as accurate as possible and nearly impeachable.
Ryan
****
Ryan Lamppa, Running USA Media Director
Original Post