To become a USATF member, or not

Scott:

I'm in the same boat; no real advantage of USATF membership for many years. Yet I keep joining. I tell myself each year that I do it simply to support the organization.

Pete
Guido Bros.

I think (and others can correct me if I'm wrong) that USATF membership provides you w/ insurance whether the race you're measuring is sanctioned or not - heck, suppose you're pounding a nail in one end of a new cal course (definitely not sanctioned, not even an event) and an 18-wheeler (driven by Stu?) clips you? If my impression (not the impression I'd leave in the truck's bumper) is that you'd be covered since it was "official USTAF business." Remember, our "official" connection is to the course, not the event.

I'll try to claify the insurance later. In the meantime, take a look at these insurance policy brochures at

http://www.usatf.org/clubs/ben...nsurancebrochure.pdf

and

http://www.usatfofficials.com/...mmaryofInsurance.pdf

and

http://www.usatf.org/membershi...s/groupInsurance.asp

Thank you. -- Justin

Thanks, Justin, for those links. None, however, seem to address our situation as does this posted by Gene Newman: http://www.usatf.org/events/co...cation/insurance.asp .

Your second link appears to refer to 'certified officials'. David Katz and maybe a few others in the measuring community might be 'certified officials' but that's about it. I've given thought to getting 'certified' but can't see how that will aid me from an insurance point if I'm performing measuring duties.

Scott,

We have updated information on the link --> http://www.usatf.org/events/co...cation/insurance.asp


As for some of the other points mentioned, here are my comments!
There are benefits for joining USATF. Some benefits for measurers, FS and Regional Certifiers are as follows:
1.listing of Certifiers
2.listing of Measurers
3.listing of Certified Courses
4.maybe insurance if one follows some guidelines

At the present time, Regional Certifiers nor RRTC members are not required to join USATF, but it is suggested by me. If you notice that the RRTC and Regional Certifiers are listed on the USATF site, but one must be a member to appear on the RRTC listing. We our lucky this is not the case for Regional Certifiers.

A Regional Certifier receives a review fee(it is small, but one gets this.) If a Regional Certifier were not listed then how would contact occur? Some may get a measuring job from the listing on the USATF site, which could be some income. There could be a time when they require us to be members, but I hope this will not happen. Remember USATF supports the RRTC financially and this helps the running community.

I respect anyone's opinion and if one decides to join then that’s good.

Gene, thanks for the updated info. I see that certified officials are covered by the USATF policy when performing duties, in our case, measuring courses, etc. Two things here: 1. Near as I can tell, certified officials enforce rules and officiate competitions while measuring courses falls outside those duties. And, 2. Becoming a certified official is an extra expense...not sure how much but I've seen at least $40.

In sum, for a measurer to be covered by USATF insurance you have to be a USATF member & the event/course you're measuring has to sanctioned at the time of the measurement or you have to be a USATF member and certified official to be covered if the event/course is not sanctioned by USATF.

On the second point, I fail to see & understand the relationship between what certified officials and measurers do. In effect, we'd have to become USATF members (for about $30), attend a 6-7 hour workshop, pass the certified officials test and fork over about $40 so we'd be covered by USATF insurance for a non-sanctioned event. All this while performing a task that isn't something that requires being a certified official.

Do I have that right?

I am still completely lost an baffled. Any person can do measurement. There is no program that I know of, where I can become a Certified Measurer.
How do I, as a simple measurer get “Certified” and how do I then become a USATF “Certified Official” in the USATF database?

Your link about being measures being covered says "Coverage does not depend on USATF membership or whether or not the person is a USATF certified official."

But the other link says the only people insured are "USA Track & Field members listed as "Certified Officials" in the USA Track & Field membership database" and "Only while acting in their capacity as officials during sports events" and then only during events "organized by recognized sports organizations, leagues and associations".

This would seem to preclude all the sporting events organized by charities rasing money for the disease je jour, or by a city, or a for-profit race management company. Today most road races are not organized by sports organizations and associations. I don’t know of any organized by a sports league, this ain’t hockey.

While that is not baffling enough, the very next sentence on the same page goes on to say “Coverage does not extend to registered member officials while acting in their capacity as such during USA Track and Field sanctioned activities.”

Which means I have to be listed as a “Certified Official” in the USATF membership database to be covered, but NOT a registered “member official” if it is a USATF sanctioned activity.

This is getting to the complete bullshit stage of magical misdirection.

A) I am not, to my knowledge a “Certified Official” because measurers are not certified, only courses are.

B) It is probably true that the official regional course certifier is a USATF official in his capacity as certifier of the paperwork, so I guess these select few are insured against paper cuts.

C) I am further perplexed in that the summary of coverage states that any coverage there might be, (if I were listed as a Certified Official in the USATF membership database) is secondary to all other insurance, not a primary insurance. What if like me you don’t have primary insurance?

D) All of the insurance seems to be protecting the USATF, and the named EVENT if it is sanctioned, against claims by others. If you fall of your bike and scratch a Mercedes then the car is covered, but not your personal injuries. It seems to me that you would have to sue the EVENT or USATF for the insurance to kick in, and then it would be covering them against your claim, not you.

I truly believe that the whole subject of insurance for course measures should be re-thought from the bottom up. Measurement is fundamentally a function that happens way before the day of the event, and often before the organizers know if the event will actually take place.

Measurers are out attempting to measure and put marks on the roads that are still open to the public, with cars whizzing past. We have all had our close calls. It is not a safe place.

Let’s be real about this. One day a measurer is going to get run over. It is only a matter of time.

I suggest a separate insurance policy, to cover every person doing a course measurement in preparation for issuance of a USATF certified course, paid for by adding $10 or $20 to the cost of issuing the certificate.

The insurance could be triggered by the measure logging in to a website prior to going out to measure stating the day and city they are going to be going out to measure in. It should be related to the perpetration of a USATF measurement certificate, but independent of the nature of the ultimate nature of the event.

We don’t certify races, we certify courses.

It matters not to the certification if no one ultimately uses the course, or if ten different events use the course during the year. In no way is the issuance of the certification tied to the nature of the organizing body of any race, or their sanctioning or lack thereof.
Therefore the insurance of the person doing the measurement in preparation for the certification of the course should not be tied to the events that might ultimately use the course.

Scott, First we are not certified officials. There is talk about this occurring, but what has to take place is up in the air. It is very confusing to all of us in the RRTC, but time may answer the questions about Certified Officials. As for us becoming a Certified official, it would have to be a special Official relating to measuring not to track/field.

Scott, you are correct about first you must be a USATF member for any of this to occur. I feel we should all have on our Home Owners Policy an umbrella to cover us while measuring.

James,

If I have the correct person then I see you have not measured any course in the last 5 years. I understand your frustration with the insurance issue, but we at RRTC are also unclear. As for getting insurance for any measurer, this is not up to the RRTC or USATF. The measurer is an independent contractor and it's their responsibility to have coverage. I'm sorry you don't have insurance, but again we at RRTC don't provide insurance for any FS, Regional Certifiers or Officiers. USATF is trying but there is a ways to go.

On another point, anyone can measure in the US(not true for most of the world). There is no such thing as a certified measurer. Regional Certifier are appointed based on their work and a need in a specifiec area. Regional Certifiers are not officals.

If you would like to talk on this issue please email personnaly or give me a call.

Best Regards,

Gene Newman

Gene, nowhere in my post do I directly link what we do as measurers to what certified officials do. In fact, I spell out what certified officials do- they enforce and officiate competitions AND I say I don't see & understand the connection to what we do as measurers.

I announce track meets and am surrounded by certified officials. I know what they do. They do stuff we don't do as measurers. There's little or no reason anybody that measures a course should want to become a certified official.

Here's a thought: require everybody that measures a course for USTAF certification to become a USATF member. As I've noted, one of their benefits is not likely to be any coverage under USATF because so few of the events we measure are sanctioned, and then, we can't even be sure those that are, are sanctioned before we measure. A very modest few are sanctioned ahead of time and for those, we are lucky.

We become members to support the sport...and for the outside chance what we do is covered by USTAF insurance. Odd arrangement.

All:

Support of the organization! That's the best reason for non competing measurers to become USATF members. There is at least one tangible reason and that is to support this forum. Another is to support the RRTC.

Most of us have been measuring courses for years because we find it a challenging hobby that produces something (as opposed to say, golf, that's challenging, but doesn't). If there was no USATF, there would be no RRTC, without RRTC we wouldn't have the structure for our hobby. You could think of your annual USATF dues as your membership fee to the Measurers Club.

That said, I think James M has a point, unless you are covered by some other medical/accident insurance, you aren't covered while measuring. The words in the various "explanations" provided with the various USATF coverages seem designed to miss-lead, like many documents these days. Additionally, many of us don't have the affinity for mumbo-jumbo that it takes to research the legalistic depths of these insurance policies.

Gene is right on when he advises those looking for primary insurance for damage to self or property while measuring; it should come from somewhere other than USATF.

As for the website insurance policy, I wonder what the legal community and the community that uses the legal community would think or do with it.

Pete
Guido bros

Guido Brothers wrote:

quote:

a challenging hobby that produces something (as opposed to say, golf, that's challenging, but doesn't)

I think most golfers would say their hobby does produce something - FRUSTRATION!

On a more serious note, there was talk at the 2007 Annual Meeting of creating a separate certified official designation of "Course Measurer," just as there now is Starter, Clerk of Course, Timer, etc. Under this proposal anyone who was a USATF member and registered w/ the Officials group would then be covered under their insurance umbrella. Dave Katz did a lot of the preliminary legwork on this, although I'm not sure if it went any further in Reno.