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STORAGE OF ELECTRONIC FILES

peteriegelpeteriegelRCMBB Founder
STORAGE OF ELECTRONIC FILES

Electronic storage of course maps is being contemplated for courses certified in 2006 and later. This can eliminate the need to accumulate any more file cabinets full of papers, the vast majority of which will never be used.

Proper backup of the resulting electronic files is absolutely necessary.

To get a handle on the problem I scanned a complicated black and white map, and also a 8 x 10 inch color photograph. Using my HP ScanJet 4100C I scanned the B&W map as a black and white drawing, full size, and saved it as a JPEG file at maximum resolution. File size came to 1.34 MB. The color photograph, scanned as “best color photograph” and saved as maximum resolution JPEG came to 2.25 MB.

Above scans are done at 150 dpi, which is quite readable even for tiny stuff. If 300 dpi is used, color comes out to 5.17 MB and B&W comes out to 1.34 as before. I expected a change here, but it didn't happen.

A typical course certificate, saved at low resolution but quite legible, came out to about 100 KB.

As I see it, this would result in storage capacities as follows, for maps only:

A single 700 MB CD would hold 522 black and white maps or 311 color maps.
An 80 GB hard drive would hold 59,700 black and white maps or 35,500 color maps.

A separate (plug in to the USB port) 80 GB hard drive may be purchased for around $100 to $200. CD’s can be bought for between $0.10 and $0.25 each in stacks of 50 or 100.

It would seem that storage and backup of both maps and certificates should not be a problem.

This may be an improvement to our present certificate storage method.

In addition, this would permit course maps to be created in color, something we have had to avoid until now.

How this would interface with Keith Lively at USATF, who puts the maps on the USATF web site, is presently unknown to me.

I present this for discussion.
Last edited {1}
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sturiegelsturiegelMember
I'll chime in on color: I submitted a technical drawing to a machinist and added color to it to indicate how deep various parts had to be milled to, rather than cluttering up the drawing with more tiny numbers. Color made the overall picture a lot clearer.

A standardized color code (red for start/finish, blue for splits, etc) would make the maps easier to read on-screen, while not seriously impeding those with black&white printers.

Just my $.02
B bobthurstonMember
This is really interesting and at the same time a little scary. What will electronic storage do to the "one piece of paper" restriction we have always used? On one hand it seems like that limit would be arbitrary to the point of being silly if our courses are actually stored as an electronic file. On the other hand, the poor RD walking around trying to set up the points on a course would probably appreciate one piece of paper telling him or her what to do.
There's another part of it, having to do with map construction: the limitation we've had forces you to think about what is really important to show, and to devise a way to show the important details-- using distorted scale, inset maps, and so on. If the limitation is gone then I can just picture an obsessive-compulsive measurer going hogwild in including detail and doing everything to an exact scale, etc.
I'll admit that I'm behind the eight ball in getting with newer technology; I still like to print something out to "really" read it. So maybe someone could explain how you could just carry your blackberry or gps or cell phone or??? and dispense with the piece of paper.
I look forward to hearing from others!
Bob Thurston
jaywightjaywightCertifier
The discussion here has focused on storage of the certificates and posting them on a website. While such topics are important, let's not forget that the certifiers in the field are responsible for producing certificates and forwarding them to measurers, race directors, local associations, etc. If we begin prodcing the maps in clor, the maps become more expensive and inconvenient to produce. At least for me, it's no longer "copy them at work" or copy them at Kinko's for 9 cents a copy.

I guess I could upgrade my home computer equipment (I currently have an HP color inkjet fax-copy-scan-print machine, and when one prepares 100 certificates a year, one can absorb the expense, but not all of us process nearly that volume.

I would suspect this change might also lead eventually to scanning certificates at the certifier level and sending them electronically to the vice-chairs, which would be a good idea as it would speed up the process. I've already started scanning certificates and e-mailing them to the measurer and/or race director when time is an issue, but I always follow up with a hard copy in the mail.

If color maps and color conventions would make maps more legible, I'm all for them, but before we move on this, let's take a hard look at how it would affect everybody involved.
peteriegelpeteriegelRCMBB Founder
I had not considered that all certifiers might not have the equipment to handle color maps. I agree that this is a wait-and-see thing, not to be jumped into.

One piece of paper is valuable. Things that get printed out do so on standard size paper. We've learned how to do a good one-piece map.

Electronic files don't have to affect the people at the certifier or measurer level. The capability will remain at the registrar level to produce paper maps and paper certs on demand.

What to do with the course maps up to 1990 or whenever Mike started scanning them? I'd say retain the paper copies until some wonderful soul offers to scan them all. I don't see this as part of the registrar's job, or nobody would take it.

File retention? - I have files going back to the early 1990's. It is almost unheard of for me to need to go to them for anything except a copy of a certificate or course map. I expect to chuck a few early years soon, when space becomes a bit tighter.

All in all, I think that it would be good to change nothing at all except the way the registrar files the certs. Instead of file cabinets, a hard drive would do the job.
Last edited by peteriegel
jimgerweckjimgerweckMember
I create my maps electronically using FreeHand, so it's a cinch to do them in color. For an exmaple, see

http://www.clubct.org/Races/GTR/GTRMap.GIF

I then print them out in B&W and send through the certification process.

In GIF format, these maps take up about 50kb. It would seem to me that rather than having the certifier or registrar scan them in, it would be better to use the original electronic file all the way through the process.

I've also created PDF files of these maps, which take up about three times the file space, but still far less than the scanned versions (the entire certiciation process of the Mt. Rushmore Marathon and Half Marathon was done without a single piece of paper, as Pete Riegel and I exchanged all the information, including maps, electronically). It seems to be a waste of time and disk space to go from electronic to paper then back to electronic.

Not all measurers have this capability, but those who do should be encouraged to eliminate as much paperwork as possible.
peteriegelpeteriegelRCMBB Founder
Unless EVERYTHING comes at the registrar the same way the result could be a ton of extra work for him. Imagine receiving two or three different electronic formats as well as printed certificates, then having to convert everything to a common storage format.

When I receive electronic copy as a certifier I print it out anyway, so I really save nothing. In fact it is more work than if I got it by mail. I can handle it, but why should the registrar have to?

The time for sending electronic copy to the registrar may come, but not just yet. It may come to be by evolution as the new system - if it is implemented - comes into play.
Last edited by peteriegel
sturiegelsturiegelMember
the one advantage that paper files have over electronic files is safety. while they are susceptible to fire, flood, etc, they are virtually immune to electronic bugs, file corruption (I recently had to re-type a 20-page document that mysteriously turned itself into a 180-page document) magnetic interference and all other sorts of 21st Century garbage.

Technically, CD storage is perfect, and forever. Technicall, so is hard-drive storage. Tell that to my document. At least I had a paper backup.
peteriegelpeteriegelRCMBB Founder
Registrar Job Performance

In RRTC we have historically let whoever has a job do it his way, so long as the overall requirement of the job is fulfilled. The registrar job’s main goal is to preserve RRTC’s output so that it can be retrieved at a later date when needed. Thus far what we have been doing is adequate.

My idea of scanning the certificates as well as the maps could be replaced if one more column was added to the course list. This has been desired for a long time by RRIC. The column would include the course paperwork submission date, which is considered to represent the date the measurement work was finished. In retrospect I think this is better than creating a separate list of certificate images. We already have everything else from the certificate included in the course list.

This may be seen by the incoming registrar as a better way to preserve the data. The course list has historically been backed up by the registrar sending off copies of the course list to one or more other people. There has not been, in my recollection, a need for this backup to be used.

Files may be corrupted, it’s true, but if the uncorrupted version has been preserved on a CD, it’s pretty safe, especially if uncorrupted copies have been sent to other places. Of course, it would remain as paper files for a certain period until it’s believed that they can be discarded.
nevillenevilleRRTC Validations Chair
Certificates with maps as small Word files

A few weeks ago Gene Newman sent me a certificate without a map as a Word file. Working through the irritations of Word, I was able to modidify the file for my own use and even insert a color map to create a file with only 100 kb. I have since sent out many certificates to race directors as Word files and they appear to be happy with them. Certifiers can download the following file of a sample certificate for use as a template(gray lines to not appear in the print-out):

http://home.earthlink.net/~caverhall/timothyscertificate.doc
peteriegelpeteriegelRCMBB Founder
I produce a lot of my maps by generating most of the map using Street Atlas USA to create a background map as a jpg file. I use Adobe PhotoDeluxe to make additional sketches. I insert the map into Word, and insert the sketches on top of the map, and also add text boxes for the splits and course description. When I am done I have a map as a Word file. I convert this to a pdf and send it to the race administration people.

If they want it I will give them the Word file.

As everybody produces maps in a different way I don't see the day when we will be sending electronic maps to the Vice-Chairs and the Registrar, unless we wish to drive them crazy dealing with all the different formats.

On maps I receive as a certifier, I generally scan the maps and certificates and send them to the measurers as pdf files, for their use. I also send them paper copies.
sturiegelsturiegelMember
I'll chime in on this one.

Neville sent me a few maps he'd done electronically for direct upload to the site. While I have no philosophical problem with that, the practical problems are manifold. File size, print size, pixel count, color depth and DPI have to date been consistent. Once a hundred measurers start sending in color maps of all shapes and sizes, the record-keeping's going to go kablooie. The USATF's shiny new hard drive will fill up in a matter of minutes.

Right now we can compress black & white map scans down to 1MB and change. With 200 GB to work with, that means we can store a ton of them. Color maps take up 24 times as much room on a per-pixel basis.

EDIT: correct figure is just over 100KB for a B&W scan.

If color is to be introduced, it should be used in such a way that it doesn't interfere with B&W users. In other words, the map has to be legible in both formats.

Tonight I scanned 64 paper maps in just over four hours. In that same time, I could have translated maybe five electronic ones, and been in a mood to kick babies at the end of the night.

If anyone wants to try their hand at an electronic map, please try to use the same standards we use for paper maps: 2550x3300 pixels, 300 dpi. If your map starts out this way, then I won't have to stretch it like a Silly Putty copy of a newspaper to make it fit, and folks can print it out on a single sheet of paper.

rant over Smiler
Last edited by sturiegel
matthewstudholmematthewstudholmeCertifier
How about Stu defining the exact format he needs including file type, file size, print size, pixel count, color depth and DPI? If certifiers sends the electronic maps to Stu and it does not fit his requirements, then it's simple on Stu's part - tell them to go fix it. I don't think it should be Stu's job to manipulate the file. If certifiers are unable to figure out how to provide electronic files in the format he needs, then they then need to resort to the paper-by-mail method. My opinion is those who have sufficient computer skill should to be able to submit electronically. All others use paper.

Is there an obvious reason why pdf file format will not work? There are free pdf converters available that will convert almost any file type to a pdf, e.g, http://www.pdf995.com . I send pdf copies of maps to RD's if they request them. The file sizes are significantly smaller than 1 MB and are typically less than 100 KB.
Last edited by matthewstudholme
nevillenevilleRRTC Validations Chair
In order to handle color digital maps, I found that Stu and Keith needed them as png files with 2550 x 3300 pixels and 300 pixels/in and so I formatted them accordingly. File sizes were only just over 100 KB. I am hopeful these files will mean less work for Stu than scanning, and my maps will be displayed on the USATF site without being severely degraded as in the past.
johndehayejohndehayeCertifier
I believe that we should try to agree on a digital format for our course maps. And it should be compatible with Stu’s needs. The six active measurers in Alabama, including me, all produce nice digital maps, but in four different formats (.pdf, .psd, .ppt and .dwg). I currently receive the maps via email and then print them on paper certificates when I complete my review. But I suspect that I could get most of the measurers to submit in .pdf format with the resolution that Stu needs. Then I could just send him copies when the certifications are completed. I’ll check with the measurers and see what they can do.
justinkuojustinkuoCertifier
I have been converting my own course maps into the PDF format because I can email the map and be reasonably certain the recipient can open and view the file. If the RRTC is to start transmitting files electronically then I believe we should standardize and use the PDF format.

Neville reminded us that Keith, the USATF webmaster, needs the files in PNG format. As an quick experiment, I took one of my PDF course maps and converted it to directly PNG format. Here are the two files:



I converted the PDF file using the free software: XnView v1.82.4 and AFPL Ghostscript 8.53. I can tweak XnView to get the desired file size. XnView may be used in batch mode, so the a disk full of PDF files may be converted quickly. -- Justin
sturiegelsturiegelMember
The maps have to be in PNG format for compatibility with the software Keith uses with the online search engine. We went through a BIG brouhaha in January and into February about file conversion and storage. The bottom line is, PNG is the most efficient way of storing graphic files yet devised.

Any electronic maps should be 2550 x 3300 pixels, and 300 dpi resolution. Two colors (black and white)is the preferred number for maximum printout compatibility, as not everyone has a color printer yet. The size and resolution is important, as the Web pages are designed around this format.

Whether the state certifiers and vice chairs wish to deal with electronic maps instead of paper is another matter. I haven't been on the job long enough to get set in my ways yet. Those who have are welcome to join the discussion.
ronfitzpatrickronfitzpatrickMember
Wow; it's been a while since I chimed in on this board. This is a good topic to explore.

I've been creating all my course documentation electronically for awhile. But, I always spit out hard-copies and file them the old fashioned way. I currently have four file drawers full of course paperwork.

As a general practice, I provide both an electronic copy and a hard copy of the map and certificate as a pdf to race directors. I put the electronic copy on a CD together with photos of start/finish and splits. PDF works well for this because anyone can get the Acrobat Reader free.

With the file space required for hard-copy, I've considered going to CD for filing course info. But, I recently read that although CDs are a great way to store a lot of stuff, they are NOT permanent. In fact, under some conditions (mostly temperature dependent) they begin to deteriorate within two years. So, I'm getting ready to start into another file drawer and continue to keep hard-copy files.

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