Measurement fees

I charge $100 for a 5K plus $20 for the review, $150 for a 5K-10K combo (plus $40), $200 for a half plus the $20, and $400 for a marathon plus the $20. My fees are a bit low if you consider the amount of work, but I consider it a hobby. A marathon can take three days of riding plus a half a day at least doing the maps. I charge a little extra when there are changes made after I measure.

RE: 10 YEAR EXPIRATIONS: It is my understanding that you can request a renewal of the certification if you state that the course has not changed. It is a moot point for me; my ten oldest certifications are all races that are dead and gone, or recently remeasured because of major changes. Of the 100 or so that I have measured, I bet the oldest is less than 5 years.

Jim, I charge $30 per kilometer and have for several years. I could charge more, easily.

Per dealing w/expired courses...presently, it's nobodies job to tell race contacts their course has expired. There's no mechanism in place for an orderly way to remind them. As so many know, race contacts come and go, making it tougher to get a hold of after 10 years. It can be done, however and behooves the RRTC to address this soon. Doing something feels like a natural extension of our duty, albeit possibly time-consuming and secretarial seeming.

About 10 year expiration, Louis Joline wrote "It is my understanding that you can request a renewal of the certification if you state that the course has not changed." This is true currently, except that renewals are being phased out, and after 2010, there won't be any such thing as renewal of a course certification. For full details, see http://www.rrtc.net/news/#renewal_phaseout

Re: Louis' comments, I guess it's true that "everything's up to date in Kansas City." Oldest course 5 years old or less - wow. Here in CT, "the land of steady habits," I've measured some courses that have been run unchanged for 40+ yrs.

My suspicion is that many RDs, when/if they find out their course certification has expired, will simply continue using the course, assuming it hasn't changed, knowing that it's still accurate. I believe the status of such a course would be "inactive," meaning records could still be set on it, correct? In any case, the precentage of races that worry about records is extremely small.

I'll provide some feedback from the southern hemisphere. For commercial events, I charge a base (minimum)fee of $250 and for this fee I provide up to five hours measurement work. In that time I can generally measure (once) a straight forward course (even a marathon, dependent on the course configuration and traffic density). I charge $50 per hour for each additional hour after the 5 hour mark. This ensures I get an appropriate payment for second and third rides to lay out splits and also ensures I get paid by the hour when disorganised race organisers waste much of my weekend while they make up their minds where the course will go (after the measurement has shown the course to be a couple of kilometres short!).

In the modern word a lot of races are run by professionals or some times on behalf of charities by professional fund raisers.

The other service providers, like the timing systems expect to be properly compensated.

It seems to me that compared to the other 'professionals' involved in a race the measurer is generally under paid. This is possibly because they have previously been active in their club and prior volunteers, and so don't feel comfortable turning round and now asking to be properly compensated.

Obviously there is also local club races where everyone is a volunteer and no one expects to get paid. Yet even in this venue clubs are more and more turning to professional paid timing companies.

It may be worth exploring how the RRCA can add or explain the value of the measurer and the value of certification. Maybe a color flyer that we can hand out that explains what we do, the value we bring, and how to best use the partnership between RD and measurer.

It seems sense to charge for:
1) Course design, including advice on suitable locations for start and finish.
2) Measurement, by the km or mile.
3) Paperwork & map.

I also know of some who are paid if the event wants them there on race day to make sure the right marks are used.

I do some for my club for fee and have charged others a minimum of $300 for a 5K.

Measurement is rarely worth my time from an economic point of few. To be honest, this may be because I take a lot of care and that takes time.

I ride the course quite a few more times than necessary and take a long time drawing up maps.

It is not un-common for me to visit the race course several times.

I am concerned that the start and finish be suitably located. Just because the RD thinks it is good I always take an over view and talk through the issues with the RD at the sight.

First visit to the course is to meet the RD and go over the proposed course. The first visit is to make sure the Start, Finish and course are sane. We also go through course restrictions, traffic issues and what part of the road will be available on race day.

I return home to check with mapping software that the course is about the right length.

On the day of measurement I go out and take 8 to 10 runs on my 1/2 mile cert course. Back inside to put numbers into the computer, produce working constant, and pre-calculated working tables that I use. (A set of pages with pre-calculated counts, based on working constant, restarting every race length plus start/finish separation, for counts 000000 through 999999)

Car trip back to course and first bike ride to warm up bike, work out shortest path and approximate start and finish. Often the finish location is more important and less flexible than the start, so I move start by missing counts.

Then a ride from the working start to lay out working mile and finish marks.

Do at least two more rides, recording counts at each marked point. (Actually I often do way more than the needed two rides).

Depending on confidence level, adjust mile marks by average difference between recorded and calculated. (By this time we are talking about small corrections, so that not only is total length spot on but mile marks are too.)

Then walk around and take measurements of all fixed points.

Return home, do 8 to 10 more passes on my cert course and back inside to do the final math and figure out if there are any final adjustments.

Drive back to course, this is often on a subsequent day, to make final adjustments, bang in nails, do paint, check map sketches, measures any course adjustment, etc.

Back home to do map drawing and type up list of fixed points. I dislike doing the map as I want to include a lot of detail but find it difficult to cram on one sheet. (Especially when the edges get trimmed off in the cert process) The map may take me several drafts and takes several hours.

In comparison, the 'pro' who does my tax return charges the same amount for something they do from their desk and that only takes about an hour of their time.

When you consider that courses are good for 10 years, and most seem to be used at least 5 times the cost per race pales in comparison to the race income and the other race expenses.

So should the RRCA help 'sell' the value in our services?


It may be worth noting that triathlons do not normally pay for certification of distances and just guess. On the other hand the larger and more prestigious races, (sanctioned events), pay for a number of on course judges for every race.

James,

Good descriptions of what you do. I thought I was anal about processes, but you beat me, hands down.

All;

Dave Poppers is my certifier, and he always provides me with the exp. date (man, that is so hard to do, I have to have someone else calculate the end of the 10th year from my cert. date). I now put it on my maps that I provide the Race Director, and, I tell them the cert is good for 10 years. They know that up-front. I don't think there is any problem with that, and it is part of my sales presentation - "certification is good for 10 years, so it comes to $25 (or whatever) per year, which is one additional runner per year". With expiration dates printed on the map, no one can say they didn't know the certification expires.

Regarding RRCA publishing an explanation of the value of certification, supply the link: http://www.usatf-niagara.org/coursecertification04.htm

Back to pricing:

I have my prices posted on my Website (www.RaceMeasure.com). Race Directors can see the pricing for various levels of prep on their part. It is a sliding scale, based on a per-kilometer price, 5K increments. Most of my courses are for non-profits. Only 2 have asked me to donate my time, but after I explain that most of my clients are non-profits, they understand and have no problem paying.

Louis and Scott, I believe you are under-charging, and are not really making enough to be worth the effort.

If this is not frowned upon by the moderator of these forums, I would like to offer to have www.RaceMeasure.com be a tool/partner for measurers to post maps of certified races in each state for each year. I am going to re-design my site over the winter, but hope to list as many certified races in as many states as I can, so runners have a place to find a CERTIFIED race in their area, arranged chronologically.

Further, if measurers want to come under the RaceMeasure umbrella, they can measure the course, and if they want to make maps following the standards of RaceMeasure, they can make their own maps. If they want to have RaceMeasure make the maps, measurers can just mesure and provide proper details for mapping. One big partnership of participants, enabling runners to find accurate courses.

As a runner, I believe in the value of a certified course. I also believe our craft has a business opportunity for all of us, and I am ramping-up my efforts to educate/sell RDs on the value of certified course, hopefully to allow all of you to benefit from those efforts.

Please let me know if this posting violated any rules regarding the use of the forum. My intent is to share my efforts with all, so some may also benefit.