Marathon Measurement Plan

Pete,

How about going from the start to 8.5 and laying out these mile marks. When you reach 8.5 find the distance to the finish then ride from 8.5 back to the start. After computing the numbers you will then know what distance is needed to the turn for the next day's ride.

Next days ride you could set your mile marks as you ride to the turn.

Gene

In order for that to work I'd have to have enough room at the TA end. I don't know yet that I have it. If I don't have it I'll have to take a different route inside Town B.

Pete,

Assuming the TA is the only marker where the course can be adjusted, then the measurement could be completed in two days. On day one, lay out your calibration course as you had specified, and calibrate. Measure from Mile 8.5/26 marker to the fixed start. Then, ride from the start back to Mile 8.5/26 marker and lay the splits along the way back.

If there's time on the first day, measure the distance between the Mile 8.5/26 marker to the finish on the track. Then, ride from the finish back to Mile 8.5/26 marker and lay the splits along the way back.

At the end of the first day, you'll know the distance from the start to the Mile 8.5/26 marker as well as the distance from the finish to the Mile 8.5/26 marker. Now, you can calculate the remaining distance to make up the marathon as well as the split locations. The turn-around will be located at one-half of that remaining distance.

On day two, calibrate, and measure from the Mile 8.5/26 marker toward the TA and locate the new TA. Then, ride from the TA back toward the Mile 8.5/26 marker and lay out the splits along the way back.

Let me know what you think. -- Justin

Justin, you and Gene have both proposed what would be a good way to do it. What scares me off is that I am not yet certain that there is enough room in the TA leg to fit the course. If I try to measure it on day 2, and run out of bike path before I get to the TA, I will have made a bunch of useless marks. On the other hand, even if it does come up short I will have a full course measurement.

Seems like it may be worth taking a chance.

I'll know more when (if?) the RD gets back to me.

I like Pete's method, it's conservative and leaves room for the unexpected delays that always happen. Pete, don't you need the segment from 8.5/26 to the finish on day 1 or immediately on day 2?

quote:

In order for that to work I'd have to have enough room at the TA end. I don't know yet that I have it.

I think you don't have enough information. I would also think it a good idea to find out who designed the existing course, for that may be different than the RD or head of the group that wants to put the event on.

Adjusting the TA sounds like the simplest solution for a large course adjustment. Going over possible course adjustments on site can save you a lot of time later. This is especially true for a long course being organized by less experienced RD's, which is what it sounds like in this case.

Before tackling the course I think I would:
1) Find out what is adjustable.
2) Find out why the existing locations of the start and finish were selected.
3) Determine the number of runners the event is being designed for.

I would schedule your first visit to meet the event director and their course manager.
On that day, preferably with their help:
a) Lay out the cal course
b) Visit all the key points by road
c) Determine and mark the optimal start,
finish and proposed TA.
d) Take GPS readings of each point, along
with the points where the course turns
from the rail bed to the town roads.
e) Check the proposed route through town B,
determining what part of which roads will
be used. If on any part if only part of a
road is used.
f) Mark known fixed points, (where length
adjustment will not be made) and record
measurements to known fixed points.

I would also discuss with the event directors if the start has enough road width in the first couple of miles and the space available behind the line to assemble runners. .. Again for the finish layout.

It is better that they have thought it though before you start to ride.

Make sure they have provisional permission for the route through town 'B' before you measure that part of the course. You don't want the police changing the course after the measurement.

Armed with this data, I would either return home, or retire to a building with a computer and mapping software.

I would check the length with a couple of different mapping programs and get the RD to sign off on the preliminary route and method of adjusting the course length.

GoogleEarth is useful for approximation, especially when dealing with trails that are not on the road maps.

Verify there is enough distance. Agree with RD on the exact Start, Finish, the route to be taken and the where you will adjust the course length.

Only then would I set out do ride. I would plan to do this on a different day, some time later, after all has been agreed.

I would try be organized, have pre-printed worksheets, arrive early and have on site assistance from a local.

If you know all of the above, you can do the first ride and put down splits at the same time.

(Working on the assumption that only the total length is being certified and not the splits..)

Start by calibrating the bike.

Find out Start, Finish or TA will be adjusted. If Finish, just do normal measurement, Start to Finish.
If Start, do same but ride Finish to Start.

If it is, as I suspect the TA that they want adjustments at, then:

Measure location of start pin from fixed points.

Ride from the start to the TA, laying out splits as you go, then from the TA to the finish but without laying down splits.

Then figure out the gross course adjustment. Ride back from the Finish to TA putting down splits as you go.

Now the splits are all in the correct locations even though you have not yet adjusted the TA.

You could make the gross course adjust at the TA and measure it's new location from fixed points, or just continue to Start and make both gross and fine adjustments to the TA after riding.

Have car pick you up, take you to lunch, and then return you to the start for full ride, or return to finish and do the next ride in reverse.

Re-cal the bike and run the numbers.

Make final course adjustment, if necessary, measure pin's distance from fixed points and go home.

This plan did not split the riding up across different days, One day was all prep, the second all ride. The advantage is having all the uncertainty out of the picture, so the second day should be smother and with less to worry and think about and therefore less prone to error.

Even better, have a local on a second bike ride with you. Just charge the cost of the second Jones counter to the event.

Yesterday I made contact with the RD by phone. She had mislaid my email of a month ago. I re-sent it and gave her a price for the job.

I’ve since researched the event and I think there’s a strong probability that the measurement won’t happen. Last year’s event had only 51 individual runners and 130 total, counting the relay people (event has 3.1, 10, and 13 mile legs). I don’t think the event can afford my fee. But we will see. I hope I’ll get the job, as the ride looks pleasant. Of course, if it happens in December or January the pleasure may be diluted by the cold weather.

The event is the Earth Day Marathon, starting in Mt Vernon, Ohio.

The web page for the event is: http://athletics.kenyon.edu/PreBuilt/EDC.pdf

The route as plotted on America’s Running Routes is found at: http://www.usatf.org/routes/view.asp?rID=122678

If it happens I expect to travel to Mt Vernon to meet the RD.
Then I will have her locate the exact start line.
Then I’ll drive to Gambier and lay out the cal course.
Then (time permitting) I’ll measure from Mile 8.5 to the start, and back again, laying out splits on the return ride.

Next day I’ll ride 8.5 to the TA and back again, and with luck there will be room on the bike path to fit the course. I’ll lay out the splits on the return ride if the course fits. If I run out of room I’ll need a third day to add a block or two in Gambier to get added distance.

All in all I’m guessing that three days will do the job.

I believe many of Jim’s suggestions may be overkill, as some of them are the responsibility of the RD and not the measurer. Also, the course has already been run once, and its route is known. One suggestion is essential, and that is to agree beforehand where adjustments can be made if distance needs to be added. Nothing is more frustrating than to have indecision at this point.

Google Earth isn’t much help in the area, as the photos aren’t high-definition.

A second rider on an out-back course is just excess baggage, as it will save me no riding.

One thing I regret is that if they want the course measured they cannot obtain a Jones Counter to do it themselves. Even I do not own one – I am using my chain-drive counter these days. There is always the electronic option, but I don’t think they will be up to it.

If anyone out there is interested in doing the job for nothing, let me know and I will put you in touch with the RD, and no hard feelings.

Pete, it looks like there's a small amount of "wiggle room" at the start as well. You might check that out when determining your course of action.

I can see your desire to measure this course - the rail trail looks really scenic. This one's topography appears forgiving, but one of my tougher rides was on the Mickelson Trail in the South Dakota Black Hills. It was surfaced in small crushed stone which made traction iffy in parts and the final six miles from Hill City to Crazy Horse was all uphill, at whatever the maximum grade permitted for a train.

Jim,

The Kokosing Gap Trail is paved, so it won't be 20 miles of slogging on gravel, and the course profile looks undaunting, except for the single hill in Gambier.

The trail's web page makes it look pretty attractive.

Kokosing Gap Trail

Pete,
You can get a little closer look at the trail on http://www.yellowpages.com They have an aerial view that often gets closer. They also have a birds eye view (not for this area) that gets really close.

Pete

Pete,

First, I just measured your trail from the inline with Meadow Ln. on the trail to the NE end of the Kokosing Gap Trail, using ArcExplorer. ArcExplorer is a free viewer from ESRI, makers of high-end mapping software. You may download ArcExplorer free from their Website. HOWEVER, I have not gotten it to work on my personal computer or laptop, due to video driver issues. Have tried to resolve them, to no avail. No guarantees on your computers.

That said, the distance from Meadow Ln. to the NE end of the trail is 8.842 miles, give or take a couple hundred feet.

Your sketch shows runners doing almost a complete lap on the track. The track is .25 mile, if it is a regulation track. Sketch also shows Mile 26 out on the trail. Now, in my book, the Marathon is 26.21876 miles. So, the sketch has extra length in it.

BUT, given that I ASSUME that it is 8.3 miles from the Start to Meadow Ln & Trail, AND, if Mile 26 is actually closer to the track than the sketch shows, you SHOULD have ample room on the trail for your spur.

So, I must disagree that you don't have use for a co-rider. My method:

Take co-rider (and two cars) to Cal Course and lay it out. Calibrate.

Drive one car (with both riders) to the Start. Lay out your mile markers as you ride to Mile 8.5 or Mile 9 (point is to get beyond the trail junction). Should be good as gold.

Both riders ride to Finish. From Finish, ride backwards (mark Mile 26 when you get there) to your stopping point (Mile 8.5 or Mile 9, whichever you chose). You now know (after doing some math) exactly how long your spur to the northeast needs to be. Ride to the turnaround and back, marking your miles from Mile 9 thru Mile 25. Finished! (As long as your two rides are within tolerance, and you have been marking the "longer" measurements.

If I did it myself, with no co-rider, I would calibrate, drive to Start, ride Start to Mile 9, then find distance from Mile 9 location to the Finish, so I could calculate how long my spur needs to be. I would mark Mile 26 while there. Now, I'd ride back to Start to finish the measurement of the first 9 miles. I would adjust the Mile 9 point if an adjustment is necessary.

On my second day, I would ride and mark the spur, as I do believe there is plenty of room, especially if runners make an entire lap on the track.

I have started doing my Marathon courses with a co-rider, and that is much better than alone. Although, with the trail, you don't have to worry much about traffic, except through that short stretch in town.

Good luck. Wish my Marathon courses were that flat!

I’ve found that riding with another measurer usually doesn’t save me time. The reason is that on the first ride of most courses it takes one complete course ride just to find what’s there, and adjust it. Then a second ride is needed. It doesn’t help me any to have two rides of the initial exploration, as I must do another one anyway.

Of course, it’s generally more fun to have company.

In 1999 I measured the course of the inaugural Flying Pig Marathon, in Cincinnati, Ohio. I was fortunate to have Mike Wickiser available as a second rider. Although he lives near Cleveland, he was visiting his daughter in college near Cincinnati. We rode the course together, stopping every so often at reference landmarks. This gave us two complete measurements of the unadjusted course.

At that point Mike went home and I finished the job myself on subsequent visits to Cincinnati. With the landmarks accurately known, I worked out final locations for start and finish.

The splits were easy to locate, as each one was no more than a mile or two from an accurate, certifiable reference point. All in all, with changes of RD mind involved, it took me five trips to Cincinnati to get the job done. I wasn’t happy about this.

On the Earth Day Marathon, with everything being out-back, I figure the job will involve less than 30 miles of riding. Each “out” segment will get its second measurement on the “back” ride. Doing it with two people would save me, at best, about five miles of riding.

Disadvantages are:

1) I don’t have a local friend to help. I could find one I suppose. There are one or two local people who could help.
2) When measuring with others, there is always extra time taken with meeting up and having to pre-plan. When I measure by myself I can wake up and see what kind of a day it is, and measure on my own schedule. With others involved I have less flexibility.
3) When riding in company I tend to make more mistakes when I am the lead rider. Sometimes an interesting conversation gets me sidetracked.
4) This is not a disadvantage, but the biggest help of a second person is in laying out the calibration course. I plan to do this solo. I hate to use inexperienced people at the other end of the tape.

Present status of the job is that I dropped the price a bit because the race is so small. The RD says she will be seeking to get funding from her Board. Maybe it will happen, maybe not.

If she can’t get funding I have offered to coach her, or her surrogate, in doing it themselves. I hope I don’t have to do this, as without a Jones counter presently available I’ll have to first educate her on setting up the electronic option, and then going on to actual measurement. I suspect this will be too tough for a newbie, especially as it’s a full marathon course.

Sorry your co-rider experiences have not worked well. I just measured the Colfax Marathon last weekend, and it was great. I was the lead bike, so I went to each split point (miles, and 5K multiples). I would mark the point, roll forward 5', set a GPS waypoint, and record the location description. By then, Cliff arrived, and he recorded his click count. We compared, to make sure we were accurate, then I left. He stayed and took the photo of the point and wrote his count down. Repeated along the entire course.

We finished the entire course, including calibration rides and driving to an from the course, in 7.5 hours. It would have taken me that long for one ride, then I would have had to go back for my second ride. I will use a co-rider for every Marathon course, and most Half-Marathon courses. (This was a loop course, so we were basically back at the Start when we finished.)

Good luck with the measurement. It is a big help to have the mapping tools available now, so you can work through most of the issues before going to the course.

Oh, I noticed "an interesting conversation...". Isn't the prescribed proceedure to have each rider ride separately, so each can take their own "shortest possible route"?

Duane - How did you get the confidence to dare to lay down splits on what I assume was your first ride? Every time I try that the course comes out off-length and the splits are wrong.

Riding independently is a nice idea, but so is following the guy ahead of you, watching for his glitches, and trying to do better.

The beauty of co-riders. If we are within clicks of each other, we are good. And, our adjustment is in the last mile, if needed. Lots of pre-ride measurements with different software. Eliminate all foreseeable bugs before the ride.

Having done 70 courses in the last two years, I am gaining confidence in my processes. On shorter courses, I do a preliminary mark on my first ride, which is when I do my elevation profile, then do my nails on my second ride.

Just got the word. The measurement is ON.

I'll be meeting with the RD at 9:30 AM today at her office in Gambier. She will show me the finish. Then we drive to Mt Vernon, where she will show me the start. I'll ask some questions.

Then she's done and I am on my own. A solo layout of a cal course (east of the Gambier junction) will be first, with the west end being my main reference point for the measurements. Then measure to the finish. Then measure the in-town Gambier route to another reference point on the path just west of Gambier.

Then, if time and energy permits, a ride to the start and back.

Pavement is dry and no rain predicted today.

Pete:

I know you have published it before, but my file system being what it is, can you provide your solo cal course layout process? Especially how you apply the 20 lb pull on the steel tape.

Pete

Pete,

I am about to leave for Gambier, Ohio. I'll post an answer later today or early tomorrow.

Meanwhile, check out:
Solo Post

Also, go to the top of the BB frame, click on "Find," type in "solo." You will find a pile of postings on the subject.

SOLO CALIBRATION COURSE LAYOUT

This is done by putting a series of nails in the pavement, leaving the heads protruding a bit. You hook your tape over the first one and measure to the second and record the measurement. Then you walk back, unhook the tape from the nail, and drag it far enough to hook it on the second nail. You hook it on and measure to the third nail. Proceed until you have enough length for a calibration course. When you are done you add up all the segments. Be sure you account for the offset between the center of the hook-on nail and the zero point of the tape. The offset will apply to each segment.

The first time I did this I went through the procedure from one end to the other. Then I did it in reverse order. There was a lot of walking back and forth.

It struck me that if I simply read the tape twice, this would count as two measurements. However, I have had enough misreadings to not trust this. It’s easy to get the same wrong reading twice.

Yesterday I tried a different approach. I have a tape that is 100 feet on one edge and 30 meters on the other. I put nails in just shy of 100 feet with a limp tape. Then I stretched it and read the metric value. Then I read the feet/inches. I believe this qualifies as two measurements.

I recorded the tare (amount to be deducted) as ¼ inch and also 5 mm.

Below is how the data looked.