I think this is a simple matter of getting forest managers to plant trees in more interesting patterns so that we'll be able to identify points
Bob, I have enough trouble getting some RDs to understand clear English reference point descriptions without being botanists. For example, here is a description from one certification: "On Independence Avenue, just before reaching the entrance to the Air & Space Museum. Approximately 100' before reaching 6th Street S.W. 6' beyond (west of) Metrobus Stop Sign 32-343-46-p17-p19-w-13".
The director of this large event and his helper somehow interpreted this description as "Go all the way to 7th Street and turn around". So the certified 10K became something more like 6.4 miles. They got all the other splits correct. I have no idea how they did this. I was at the race finish line that year. I got an earful from some of the faster runners.
The director of this large event and his helper somehow interpreted this description as "Go all the way to 7th Street and turn around". So the certified 10K became something more like 6.4 miles. They got all the other splits correct. I have no idea how they did this. I was at the race finish line that year. I got an earful from some of the faster runners.
That is exactly why I advocate for NOT using "before", "after", "left of", or "right of" - it depends on which direction you are heading.
Hugh Jones always prefaces his split point descriptions, which are given as "before," "after," etc. as being "relative to the direction the runners shall follow."
I think that's an easier concept to grasp and be certain of than north, south, etc. Fewer and fewer people seem to have been in the Boy Scouts, it seems.
I think that's an easier concept to grasp and be certain of than north, south, etc. Fewer and fewer people seem to have been in the Boy Scouts, it seems.
One way to deal with this problem is to give both, like "before (north of) corner . . . " or "north of (before) . . " I guess for the non-scouts we should tell folks to use their compass app on the iphone?
When I happen to ride a course in the opposite direction to what the runners will run, this is when the mental machinery can falter. I try to note whether I am paying attention to that by using brackets: "Ten feet (after) light pole" means to me that it's after in the direction the runners will go AND that I remembered to make that adjustment.
And I don't always remember, with some unfortunate consequences at times.
When I happen to ride a course in the opposite direction to what the runners will run, this is when the mental machinery can falter. I try to note whether I am paying attention to that by using brackets: "Ten feet (after) light pole" means to me that it's after in the direction the runners will go AND that I remembered to make that adjustment.
And I don't always remember, with some unfortunate consequences at times.
Since the only place the mile split or turnaround locations are provided is on my maps, and since these maps always indicate north. I feel fine providing locations as "25 ft north of east edge of driveway of #22 Oak St." Very little navigation knowledge is required.
Several years ago, I learned, from Ray Nelson, to add (L) and (R) to help describe splits and markers. For example,
5K - On Jamaicaway, 10 ft. before Pole 67 (L), 24 yd. after fire hyrdrant (R), 3 in. before curb seam (R)
Adding left and right, along with the before and after, help orient the reader that is following the map.
Thank you. -- Justin
5K - On Jamaicaway, 10 ft. before Pole 67 (L), 24 yd. after fire hyrdrant (R), 3 in. before curb seam (R)
Adding left and right, along with the before and after, help orient the reader that is following the map.
Thank you. -- Justin
quote:Originally posted by Jim Gerweck:
Hugh Jones always prefaces his split point descriptions, which are given as "before," "after," etc. as being "relative to the direction the runners shall follow."
I think that's an easier concept to grasp and be certain of than north, south, etc. Fewer and fewer people seem to have been in the Boy Scouts, it seems.
I agree, Jim. When I used to work at a running specialty store part time, I would often try to use compass directions to guide callers to the store until I realized doing so was usually fruitless. For example, I got a call from a customer trying to find the store. She was about 5 blocks away. I told her to head north on a certain street. She had no idea which direction to go. As it was late in the day, I asked her which side the setting sun was with respect to how she was headed. Silence for a few seconds. "On my left". I was then able to get her going north only after a detailed explanation. Phenomenal to us, this seems to be the average awareness out there. The RD of the 10K race I mentioned that mis-marked the T/A had the compass direction.
Maybe Bob's idea of asking RDs to turn on their iPhone or Android compass feature during course layout is a good idea. I always find it a useful tool when I am measuring on a cloudy day in an area I am not familiar with.