Course Renewal Grace Period?

As far as I know there is no deadline. Courses can be renewed any time after they have expired.

Pete is right and perhaps a better question is: are any marks set on an expired course eligible for records, rankings, etc?

I don't think they are.

I believe a record can be set on an expired or a deleted course as long as the race was run according to the certification map. That, at least, has been past practice.

To expand on Pete's comment, a course can be renewed any time after expiration, up to the maximum date when the renewal would expire (20 years after original certification or Dec 31, 2011, whichever comes first - see renewal policy at http://www.usatf.org/events/courses/certification/renewal.asp ). For records, rankings, etc., the basic requirement ought to be that the course should have been renewed before the race. An expired course that hasn't been renewed isn't certified, so shouldn't be eligible for records.

To all,

I feel Bob response is the way it has to be. If a course was not renewed then it's not certified, hence no record.

Yes, we could be the nice guys and overlook the fact the course was not renewed. Being the nice guys is wrong in this case and will create problems in the future. No records should be accepted!

Scenario:

The Podunk 10k was certified in 1996 and expired last week. They have a long history of inviting a fast field, and records have routinely been set each year.

In 2007 they run the race as usual, but have neglected to renew the course. Record times are recorded. The course is not, strictly speaking, certified.

What to do? Be hardnosed? Be accommodating?

Is this an occasion for us to pass the buck back to the Records Committee? They, after all, set the standards, one of which is that a record can be set only on a certified course. Would they care to reexamine the requirement, or modify it to some degree?

This may arise in 2011, when renewals are no longer possible. Once the course has had its ten years, it’s done. But fast times may still be run after that time.

I can think of a precedent where an uncertified course is generally regarded as eligible for records. The case is that for a new course where measurements are submitted to the certifier before race day, but certification may not take place until weeks after the race when the certifier reviews the data.

What happens for a course that was originaly certified in 1987 and has never renewed? The 20 years from the original certification date is not up until Dec 31, 2007. The race director submits an application for renewal today. Is the course renewed for another 10 years (to 2017) or just until Dec 31, 2007?

I think nothing can be renewed beyond December 31, 2011. At that time renewals will cease to be an option, and each course will have only its original ten year life.

I would not hesitate to renew ANY course, no matter when it expired, to 2011. It is easier to do that than to wrangle about procedure. This assumes that the map is OK and the course has not changed.

I have a few questions about renewal.
1. Can the request (no data, simply the request form) come from someone not associated with the original measurement? An example is the race director who had the measurement performed and submitted for certification and may not even know the route (this happened yesterday).
2. If the original measurer wants renewal of an unchanged course, why not submit the original data package and ask for a new certificate?
3. Not related to renewal, but can a segment certified as part of a race made up of several segments, be used as part of a measurement data package if it was measured more than 10 or even 15 years ago?

Pete Volkmar
Guido Brothers

The original data is not necessary for renewals, however the map must be submitted with the application for renewal. This application will show that no changes have occurred for the course in question.

For the second question, I find it best not to use segments over and over again. It could produce errors and it's best to redo the entire course.

I recently had some correspondence with an RD who never knew his course had expired. The race was certified by TAC back in 1991, and there was no expiration date on the certificate. He's been running the race on the same course for years, but it expired in 2001 without anyone noticing.

The race is run under a new name and is part of a championship series which requires certification.

At this point, I referred him to his state certifier to get it straightened out.