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8 replies

certifying segments of a course in contemplation of future course changes

toniyoungmantoniyoungmanMember
As one of the few people who have measured in the major theme parks (Walt Disney World) I have found that the need for minor and major changes come at me more frequently than ever before. This is not going to get better, more than likely worse. WDW just removed the "Richard Petty Driving Experience" One Mile Course this fall, due to an unexpected death on the course by a driver. This removed a mile from the WDW Marathon course, tasking me with making last minute changes before the event, because it affected miles 3-4 and 8-9, and construction only completed last week. With Lawyers involved, and Marketing trying to change the park experience, luring repeat attendance, things change in the parks weekly.

It would be a full time job for someone just to keep up with the changes to my courses that go through the 5 parks on Disney Property. And coordinating a measurement through the parks to coincide on the same night is nigh impossible.

I am now proposing that my team goes out and measures sections of the course, instead of the whole course. Like a menu, I would pick and choose elements, and connect them at nailed points. measuring the roads that connect the parks, which requires state police escort via WDW rules, I can forgo that in the future if I have certified those distances separately.

Then, as the parks make changes, I can go out and just measure in a single park, on a night coordinated by the cast members in charge of that park. It may take a number of nights to finalize the measurement, but it should help when making these small changes (or somewhat large ones).

It has been an ongoing struggle with Disney to keep up, and this is the best solution I've come up with. Does anyone else deal with courses that tend to be fluid from year to year, or even month to month? How have you dealth with the challenges of measurements that change more frequently than the wind?
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peteriegelpeteriegelRCMBB Founder
This is how the London Marathon is measured. A series of segments between known reference points is kept, and these are used when there is a change of the course. This eliminates the need to measure the entire course each year. As I was the principal measurer, I could observe that previously-measured segments had not changed. It is not a trivial exercise to measure the entire course in London traffic.

We could do this, but it has already been decided that a course number’s year must be that of the course’s oldest measured segment. This policy may not be comforting to say, a 2016 race that has segments going back several years, and winds up with a new course that expires in a year or two.

I cannot see the harm in accepting any date of measurement, as long as the original measurer can attest that nothing has changed since they measured that segment.
jimgerweckjimgerweckMember
I agree with Pete, who taught me this technique. I try to use it on any course longer than 10km unless I'm VERY sure it won't change in 10 years.
I once measured a double loop 30km course and took readings at every intersection as well as intermediate landmarks on longer stretches. This made it easy to cobble together a course of the proper length as well as determining split locations relative to the landmarks, by putting the data into a spreadsheet.
What you'd have to be wary of with Disney is paving/construction that would eliminate said landmarks.
B bobthurstonMember
I also agree with Pete on this one. My own local theme park (Washington, DC) is rife with unexpected construction projects, feuding "authorities" who have say-so over events, and clowns who threaten and sometimes actually do close down the whole show-- causing LOTS of reconfiguring and remeasuring of major courses such as Marine Corps Marathon and Army Ten Mile.

For this reason I have always measured and adjusted mile points and (x5K points) to certification standards so I could work from them in the future. Maybe I will follow Dan and Jane's example, and actually certify them.

But also it would be great to have certain pieces measured, certified, and not time-limited-- for one example, measuring across the 14th Street Bridge. It's too dangerous to do without serious backup; it's fairly likely to lead to a flat as there is always junk in the shoulders; I've measured it scores of times and it doesn't change.
oscarwagneroscarwagnerMember
Last year, I started painting and taking pictures of intermediate / common points not required to be described on the map. It may take a lot of time to meld multiple calibrations but it beats a harrowing blitz just right of the double yellow in 40 mph traffic. Then these go in the .docx Locations Book I make for each course (learned that on the forum) that goes to the certifier and RD.
AdminAdminMember
Where do we draw the line? Saying a 5k segment of a marathon is certified forever is no different than saying a standalone 5k course is certified forever, as long as the person who measured it assures us it hasn't changed.

I don't think it's too onerous a requirement that everything we measure has to be measured at least once every 10 years. This doesn't mean that every time there is a change to a marathon course you have to measure that difficult bridge again. It means that if you haven't measured that difficult bridge since 2005, you have to measure it again.
pastmemberpastmemberMember
Makes sense to me, Mark.

I am occasionally surprised to see my course roads repaved, curbs moved, and landmarks change. I probably shouldn't be surprised since it happens so often around Washington D.C. I suspect it is similar in most large urban areas. On some of the courses that Bob Thurston and I measure, the chance that nothing on our public roads changes in 10 years is slim.

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