A Proximity Sensor based version of the Jones Counter

Steve,

Nice job. But I have to ask the question about overshoot. If one goes past a mark and needs to back up, I assume more counts will be recorded instead of being subtracted as is the case with the Jones Counter. Am I right or am I missing something?

Alan Jones (in the interest of full disclosure, I should point out I am the inventor of the Jones Counter)

Alan Jones! I am pleased and flattered to hear from you!

You are right, of course. To a proximity switch, foreward and back are the same thing, so you have to be careful. That is a definite advantage of a mechanical counter.

On the plus side, you just press a button and you are re-zero'd and you have 99,999,999 counts available to you.

While measureing a course yesterday, I came upon a need to get off the bike and read a street sign.

I took rubber bands put them around the front brake lever. That locked the wheel. Then I put the bike in a safe place and schlepped up the street two blocks before I found a street sign!

I ordered a counter from Paul last week and I will be doing both side by side for a while at least.

Thanks again.

Steve

After thinking about Alan's comments about still counting while moving backwards, I did some more counter shopping, and found that there is one that goes either up or down that is only $5 more expensive.

It would also require a switch to change it from the foreward to reverse modes.

Stephen:
Congratulations on devising a new type of electronic counter. However I think it is misleading to call it an electronic verson of the Jones as it has much more in common with counters that employ sensors for a magnet field.

You can improve your counter by using only a single pick-up so that it reads whole revolutions. Fractions of a revolution can be read from a calibrated rim. This would essentially eliminated the problem of generating spurious impulses by accidently rolling the wheel backwards. Your idea of using a counter that can operate in forward and reverse mode with a switch would not help with this problem.

Unlike the Jones, the counters I am using can easily be switched off to temporarily arrest measurement while an exploratory ride is made. Yours can probably be modified to do the same.

Used as a whole revoltion counter, yours would essentially be the same as the Protege but as yet not as competitive. However, things change and it may have a niche in the future.

Neville,

My proximity switch based counter is analagous to the Jones in that it gives you lots of counts per revolution of the wheel. This eliminates calibrating the wheel, and the arithmetic and head-scratching that goes with it.

Certainly, a single pickup, simpler and cheaper version of it could be made.

The Omron counter is nice in that it has unbelieveable capacity (99 million counts!) and the self-contained battery lasts about 7 years and it never shuts off. (Eliminating the "first count turns it on but is lost" problem)

It, and the proximity switch, are standard industrial hardware, available from multiple, competitive, ongoing vendors.

The Omron will also work with a magnetic switch, which would be cheaper than the prox.

Steve

I think I can rightfully claim that my system is MUCH easier to operate than either a JO or a Protege.

I did some actual measuring of a course last weekend with my proximity switch based counter. (I will be receiving a Jones-Oerth counter soon.)

I read about all the calculations that go with the JO and I think mine really stands out as being MUCH easier to use.

Consider:
First we go to the calibration course. Zero, make a ride, zero, make another, etc. I use a 500 meter course. I double the 500 meter number and now I know my counts per kilometer. Since I zeroed it every time, I know how repeatable it is going to be and have a warm feeling that everything is working well before I leave the course.

Now it is a simple calculation for the expected counts for the 5k and 1 and 2 mile marks. I did not have to go home or spend quiet time with a calculator.

Now I zero the counter and ride the course, jot the number down on a 3x5 card in my pocket, ride it again, and immediately know how repeatable my two rides are and know that I have good data. I also know at a glance wether the course is long or short.

I return to the cal course,re zero, and know after the first ride if my beginning and ending counts per km values will be the same.

I think this is very easy, and that an
inexperienced person is going to make it up the learning curve more quickly than with other methods.

I consider my postings on this to be in the public domain. I am up to my ears in my vacuum gauge business.

Steve

A 300 meter steel tape? Where did you find such a thing and will you be able to lift it? ;-)

Seriously, I found a couple places that sold 300 foot tapes, but they were pretty expensive.

http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?mi=5662

I got it at www.onlinesports.com
SKH-TST30
It an open reel tape and is not heavy at all.
The price was $86. and change.
I figure the fewer times you move the tape and manually position it, the better off you are.
I measured a 500 meter course two different ways and came out within 1 inch!

Stephen:
I have been pointing out the simplifications possible with counters having zeroing capablity for four years.
In calculating your calibration factor you have forgotten to include the short course factor of 1.001.
Reproducibilty of the calibration course to within one inch does not sound particularly impressive.

Stephen,

I think you must have mistyped in your earlier post, because you said 300-meter tape. The one your link points to is 100-meter. A 300-meter tape would be a monster!

Yes, Mark, it is 300 (actually 330) feet. I also have a 100 foot tape, but sure like using the longer one, because you don't have to move it as much.

Stephen: We have been using a 300-ft steel tape for a few years. In fact, we have one that was run over and broken. It is still usable, but cuts the hand. We find calibration course layout much faster with the longer tape. The disadvantages are that in wind it is particularly unmanageable and that you can't hear your partner at the other end of the tape. The long tape is very handy for measuring the start-finish distance, especially when measuring alone.

Back to the electronic measurement thread; I have Neville's instructions and a Protogee. I've marked my wheel in 1/10 revolutions (using Whiteout correcting fluid). I've set the Protogee for the 999 wheel size. My problem is that I haven't found time to actually measure a course with it. I usually don't have the extra time that will be needed for trials and comparison. Maybe this summer.

Alan,
When I do this measuring thing, I realize the reason I like my system is that it is resettable to zero. I dread having to do all the arithmetic while I am trying to concentrate on other things.
I noticed that the Jones-Oerth setup uses a counter that is made by Veeder-Root.
Veeder-Root makes other models some of which can be reset.
A mechanical counter that can be reset and also goes backwards would be the best of both worlds.

I screwed up and deleted the last three posts. I am starting a new subject "Data Presentation."

Stephen:
I notice that with shipping the 330-ft tape costs $100, whereas a 100-ft from Lowes costs only $15. I imagine its going to really hurt when a car rolls over your tape!

With pressure monitoring it is rarely necessary to lay down a calibration course, so the advantage of a long tape is insignificant.

Guido Brothers:
Why would you measure the difference beween start and finish using a tape when it is much easier done with the bicycle counter or a map?

I find it is a very common complaint with trying the Protege that the measurer has not enough time for method development. Actually, it really takes no time at all since I have already done all the method development!

I am new at this so I appreciate anything that makes it easier to lay down a calibration course. This also eliminates repeated tape placements, which I see as chances for error.

With a 500 meter calibration course, any errors there are going to be multiplied by 10 when you measure a 5000 meter course.

What do you mean by pressure monitoring?

With skinny (25mm) tires, I find I have to pump up the tires every time I go out.

I found a place on the internet that sells air free tires www.airfreetires.com

Stephen:
Pressure monitoring is the technique where you obtain an accurate value for the calibration factor at any instant by reading the pressure with a gauge attached to the valve stem. You can read all about it and air-free tires in previous postings on this board and in Measurement News.

Since that $100 330-foot tape is a deductible expense, the real cost difference between it and the $15 100-foot tape is much less than $85. If it saves you 15 minutes each cal course measurement, it will quickly pay for itself.

Mark:
With the accurate conventional measuring method where a calibration course is laid down for practically every certification, the long tape would no doubt pay for itself in the end. Pressure monitoring though is as or more accurate and the measurer only ever needs one calibration course near his home. The advantage of a long tape is therefore negligible.