Certified Splits

Interesting, and right up my alley as far as questions are concerned.

There is a local half/5K (used to be a half/10K) that I and another measurer have taken on as sort of a "project". The organization that puts on the race hasn't had the best track record at course management, so we go out every year and check marks lay the course out to be sure the right course is run. Also, due to political issues, construction, etc, it's been remeasured 3-4 times in the last 10 years.

We're working with the group to change the 5K to a 8K (logistically most convenient) or maybe bring back the 10.

My idea is to measure each segment of the course(s) mile by mile, and document each segment on a common map (i.e. since it's a common finish, have the 5K, 8K, 10K, 15K, and half last mile (plus points) on one map all measured, adjusted, etc at once.

Now I haven't determine exactly how to submit the paperwork for this project, and I think each course will have two "maps" in the end. One, the traditional course map and the other the collection of maps from the individual segments.

I'm sure Paul will freak out a bit by the 10 pound email, but besides that what issues are foreseen?

Just thinking.... If you did each as a separate course you would have to specify each mile, with the same care you take to correctly locate starts and finishes, with multiple mesurements from fixed objects.

Here is an interesting theroetical question. Could you find your self with one mile ending on the curve in the middle of an S bend, and for the first mile the shortest path was to arrive at the left hand end of the line, but for the next mile the shortest path was to start from the right hand end of the line?

Please clarify:

Does "separate certificate" mean separate certification code?

A marathon course with a number of certified intermediate splits could take up a lot of space on the course list...

To answer the last couple questions...

For the 5/8/10/half the mile to mile start / end points would match up even if independent either by being on a straight or the inside of a curve. The 15K I'll have to think about where the marks would end up, because tehre is one place along the course where the s-curve may be near a mile mark for that.

As far as "separate certificate" well, that's the question. What I'm really talking about is documenting a mile (or thereabouts) of roadway in high detail. The last .xx of the half, 5K, 10K, etc. would all be one map. Since the half is a keyhole 4-5 and 10-11 would be on the same map (markers are 200 meters apart).

Obviously to do this we'd have to start from the finish and measure each mile, adjust, document, then go on. I figure for the markers for the 5K/8K/10K/15K and half there'd be 7-8 maps, then another 5 for the whole courses for each.

Inquiry from a measurer:

“I wanted to ask you - XXXX is having a marathon in 2012 and I will be measuring it and I was wondering do the world class marathons have certified miles or do they just measure the course like I normally do now?”

This opens again the question of intermediate splits. So far none of the various solutions seem to provide a satisfactory answer. Here is a proposal:

On the map, a note should be provided such as “Intermediate splits of 5, 10, 15, 20 km, and 20 miles, have been measured to certification standard. Drop and separation to be verified in case of a record being set.”

Since intermediate records are quite rare, I think this would do the job.

Measuring all of the intermediate splits in a marathon course will generally require three course measurements (one to get overall distance correct, two more to establish intermediate splits to certification standard). This effort is usually wasted.

Doing as I propose will require a bit more effort after a record is claimed, but it’s a lot less work than preparing a separate certificate for each split involved.

Wouldn't this certificate do the job of covering intermediate splits? It covers what's needed and doesn't require a pile of extra paperwork.



A slight reduction in the size of the certificate would leave enough room at the bottom to add the certified split stuff.

Of course, the course map would have to contain exact locations of all splits listed.

Adding the splits with the drop and separation on either the front or the map side of the certificate looks like a good solution. -- Justin

Pete,

Good idea, however how do we this on the USATF web site and how is it entered in the database?

Thanks,

Gene

Data entry for a certificate like this could be as follows:

One line for the overall distance, just as is presently done.

One line for each split. Name of race and course number remains the same for all splits.

All data lines are identical except for distance, drop, and separation.

The above procedure keeps everything on one map, and keeps costs down.

As courses with certified intermediate splits are mercifully rare, I don’t see a huge need for a set-in-stone policy. It can probably be handled on a case-by-case basis, with the registrar having the final say.

The only place to enter this info with our present database is in the comments section. Pete, if you know otherwise please explain.

I suggest the split information would be placed on the map as well as on the certificate and not to worry about entering the info into the database.

Checking for a record within a race at a certified split would have to be viewed online by looking at the map.

One way around this is to list only the overall distance on the website, and let the supplemental splits emerge when the record is set. Few people care about enroute certified splits.

I've contributed too much blah-blah about this very small problem. As Gene is the course registrar, and is the one who has to deal with the situation, I intend now to shut up and do whatever makes his job the easiest.

As things presently stand, generating a separate certificate for each split seems to be the desired procedure. I can live with that and intend no further commentary on the subject.

Pete,

Your idea as I stated is good. The only concern I have is it just doesn't happen very often.

I will bring this topic up at our annual meeting and for suggest it be done by the certifiers as you suggest by placing the splits on the Certificate and map.

Thanks Pete for your thoughts on this.

I have asked our Certifiers their thoughts on this topic and found most so far like one Certicate using Pete's example. However, there could be times when two Certifcates are needed as pointed out by Ron Fitzpatrick and Jane Parks. Here is what Jane has stated:

If there are two races using the same course with one course just a partial version of the longer distance then I think two certificates are best in this situation. If the longer course were to change the shorter course would not be affected.
If there are multiple laps and multiple distances being run (RW or Ultra often do this) then if the lap is certified any distance over a given multiple of laps could be certified with a single certificate. This assumes only full laps are counted and the race director is responsible for documenting the lap count.
If there are multiple laps and multiple distances being run (RW or Ultras often do this) and each distance is to be run exactly (not just full laps) for record purposes, I think separate certificates might be best because each distance would have a distinctly different finish and different drop and separation specs. This is probably the most case specific because I can also see the value of using Pete's single cert in certain instances. Pete did a great ultra measurement by dividing the lap into smaller segments so that for each distance only the closest partial lap distance greater than the stated distance needed to be completed so a single cert made a lot of sense. However, if the exact distance is to be run then I think multiple certs are best.
If it is a SINGLE race distance but the race director wants certified mile or km marks as a marketing tool or other reason then a single cert using Pete's method seems most appropriate. These would be certified SPLITS not certified races.

As the registrar, I can only show one distance in our database. However, I could note in the course name to see map for Certified splits.