I recently had a question from a measurer as follows:

“We certified the full XXXX Marathon last year. After 25 years they are no longer going to run the race. We are taking it over from them. How do I change the name to: YYYY Marathon? We have the correct name on the half we just certified this year. There will be NO change in the course etc.”

I replied:

“The course number identifies the course, not its name. If you must have a changed certificate, it is possible but will involve your filling out an application for certification (with new race director, race date etc), copy of the previous certificate and map, and sending it to the state certifier with the appropriate fee. He will then issue a new certificate. You do not need to do this unless you wish to. As the certifier told you, the course is already certified."

I am not sure I got this right. In the above, I think I was OK, since “ownership” has changed hands and there is no conflict. What should I do if a request does not carry a statement indicating that the original race is out of business?

Also, what about the race map? Does it need to have the name changed?

I believe a new course number is appropriate. Is this right?

(edit addition)- A later thought - perhaps it would be better to have a policy of NO name changes. The course ID is the only official course identifier. Race organization can put out whatever pretty map they wish for their brochure, but the defining map would remain the one originally certified.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Pete Riegel,

Pete, I agree with your second thought. The course is identified by the course ID. There is no reason for the new owners of the race and/or course to go through all that paper work.

Alan Jones

In New York there certainly are instances where multiple races utilize the same certified course, precisely because one race organization took the time (and expense) to certify the course. Thus, I concur that the certification ID should be the controlling factor in identifying a certified course.

While not involved in a course name change, we have provided race directors with modified maps for use in race advertising. Usually the race advertiser is not interested in the graphics involved with the exact location of the start and finish. We simply delete that from the map along with the data about who did the measuring and the date. If the map is made on a computer, this is a simple matter that we provide the race director without charge. It seems that the race name on the map could be changed as easily. The course number remains the identifier of the course.

The only potential "problem" that could arise is if runners went to the USATF website and searched for the course under its new name and didn't find the cert. They might then assume the new race isn't using a certified course, a major negative for a marathon. However, race organizers could prevent this by listing the course cert number on their entry forms and website.

I met this sort of problem years ago, and operate system with 3 identifiers:
Course name (may also be race name, generally selected by course measurer, but certifier can modify it to make it more easily identfiable eg to include a location name or to reduce confusion with other named courses. This does not always tie down a specific measurement for example if a course is changed and remeasured and the old course is no longer intended to be used then it is sensible to reuse the same course name.
Course number a unique number which identifies year of measurement/certifcation and sequence of certifcation within the year. The course number enables one to distinguish between different modifcations of a course
Race name as given by the race director. This obviously may be changed from year to year. Also more than one named race may be held on the same course. A measured course is not "owned" by anyone ie another race director can obtain a measurement report and hold a second race on the same course, even if the first race is still be held. Of course most frequent circumstance is that race directors change their race names eg by crediting different sponsors as the years go by. The new race name is then associated with the course number when the certficate is renewed for the new race. The course name and number dont change and actual measurement data dont change.

You can search the courses here using a string of letters which you think might form part of the race name or course name. The search checks both fields so makes it easy to find courses even if you are not sure of exactly how it has been named.

I did a random search just using the word "forest" as a first try. I was surprised by the mountain of information. Well done, Mike.

I try to name my courses by the location and distance, not the race name: So "North Park 5K" or "River Walk 5M"

I am not sure that the name of the Race Director or even the event name is a relevant fact that needs to be recorded on the certificate.

Location is more important than names that change. Street, City, State, Zip, Lat and Long are all more or less permanent markers.

Maybe the field should read, "First measured for: xyz run."

Some races around here are run by charities that have a committee that organize the race management. Often the chair changes hands. Race certificates are meant to be good for 10 years. In the course of time organizations come and go, or the chair and/or RD changes hands multiple times.

My club has renamed several races during the last few years, and races do not have one RD but a three person committee that changes every year.

I live in a city. There are only so-many good race venues so the same course is often used by multiple events during the year.

We coordinated with some of the park management so that they don't have a bewildering mass of different marks all over their roads. Instead of each race laying out yet more marks in the park, the park director keeps a copy of the courses in their park and the applicant is given a selection of pre-measured courses to choose from.

Its the location, location, location. We need more location information and less personal bio that changes with the wind.

With modern computers it makes sense to search for all races within 1O miles of zipcode 12345.

With modern computers it makes sense to be able to pull up a course and find all the events, or clubs, or organizations that use that course. There is not a one to one relationship between a course and it's users.

I agree with most of JamesM's points. However he didn't address the issue of the desire (requirements) of the customer. We measure in response to a request from a customer. If that customer hires us to obtain certification of a course for a particular race name, we don't have much choice in the name that goes on the map or on the application for certification.

Additionally, the suggestion that all the races that use a certain course be available seems to be beyond the Registrar's job description. It would certainly be beyond my capability.

If all the races truly share the course, they would also share the certification number. Since the cert asks the RD to use the number in all public documents relating to the race, it should be an easy matter to look them up that way.

Which begs the question: if a race follows the lines painted by a certified course, but does not use the paperwork, maps, or certification number, can it be called certified?